Warning. Petzl ZigZag and Petzl Chicane on Petzl Flow rope.Warning. Petzl ZigZag and Petzl Chicane on Petzl Flow rope.Warning. Petzl ZigZag and Petzl Chicane on Petzl Flow rope.e

Warning !
against using Petzl ZigZag Plus and Petzl Chicane on Petzl Flow, 11,6 mm. rope for SRT (Single Rope Technique).


In the beginning of june, 2021, we introduced the Petzl ZigZag-Plus/Petzl Chicane/Petzl Triact carabiner in combination with the Petzl Flow 11,6 mm. rope for SRT (Single Rope Technique) (climbing/ascending and descending for our CPT (Certified Professional TreeClimber) trainings and certifications for arborists in professional treeclimbing.
This combination of Petzl climbing equipment is particilarly recommended by Petzl.

Unfortunately this Petzl climbing equipment immediately proved to be dysfunctional, systematically malfunctioning and even dangerous !
- Below you find details, backgrund and documentation of Petzls (lack of) reaction and unwillingness to react professionally and responsibly:

Details and background:
Even before the trainings started, we had participants calling and writing us and even sending photos and films, telling and proving, that the Petzl ZigZag Plus/Chicane was sliding/creeping on the Petzl Flow 11,6 mm. ropes and thus DID NOT HOLD !
During the trainings, this was unfortunately systematically confirmed and repeated.
The Petzl ZigZag Plus and Petzl Chicane combination DID NOT LOCK/HOLD on the Petzl Flow 11,6 mm. ropes !
. . See picture and film: -------->
- On one occasion a participant even ended up helpless in an obviously dangeorous situation, as his Petzl ZigZag/Chicane didn't lock/hold on the Petzl rope.
As a consequence he slid down, whilst his foot was still being attached to his footascender, which was still attached to the rope, as he did not have time to get his foot out of the foot ascender, before the ZigZag/Chicane slid down.
Consequently he ended up in an extremely uncomfortable and dangerous situation, hanging helplessly upside down up in the tree, from where he had to be rescued !

The Petzl ZigZag has previously had problems and sefety issues with the ZigZag, and Petzl has previously made warnings and recalled previous versions of the ZigZag.
In the User Manual for the latest version of the Zig Zag Plus, Petzl states, that the ZigZagPlus must be used on ropes with a diameter from 11,5 - 13 mm.
In the User manual for the Petzl Flow 11,6 mm. rope, Petzl states, that the Petzl Flow rope is particularly suitable for use with the ZigZag Plus and Petzl Chicane:

However that proved to be untrue.

We tried the Petzl ZigZagPlus/Chicane combination on several other ropes from other manufacturers, and the ZigZag Plus/Chicane held on those ropes.
However on the Petzl Flow 11,6 mm. rope (specifically designed and sold for the Petzl ZigZag Plus/Chicane), the Petzl ZigZag Plus/Chicane did NOT hold or lock on the Petzl Rope.!

Petzls (lack of) reaction and unwillingness to react responsibly:
Based on those experiences, we contacted the reseller as soon as the above arborist trainings were finished to tell about our experiences, to leave a warning and to make sure, that the participants in our trainings would be able return their obviously faulty and potetiall dangerous Petzl equipment and be refunded accordingly.

- 16th of june, 2021. We then received an email from "Nikki" (who unfortunately omitted to leave his surname), from Petzl Nordic, where he asked us to send more information.
Anonymous "Nikki"s phone later proved to be: (+46) (0)730-853705.

- 16th of june, 2021. We answered anonymous "Nikki" with a detailed description of the problems and a request to Petzl to issue an immediate warning against using this combination of Petzl Climbing equipment.

- 16th of june, 2021. Nikki (who unfortunately still omitted to leave his surname), answered that Petzl wasn't ready to issue a warning and asked us to wait with our warning, until Petzl had assessed the situation...!
Anonymous "Nikki"s phone later proved to be: (+46) (0)730-853705.


- 16th of june, 2021 We answered, that the obvious safety issues, involved with using this Petzl equipment, were so serious, that there could be no legal or valid reasons not to issue an immediate warning.
Anonymous "Nikki"s phone later proved to be: (+46) (0)730-853705.

- 17th of june, 2021. Nikki (who still denied to leave his surname), answered that he expected Petzl to have their answer ready within a week (23rd of june, 2021).
However, weeks passed and we heard nothing from Petzl.
Anonymous "Nikki"s phone later proved to be: (+46) (0)730-853705.

- 8th of july, 2021. We received a telephone call from Petzl, Global After Sales manager, Eric Dominicy.
He said, that Petzl now admitted that Petzl approved, that the problem was real.
He also said, that Petzl had reproduced the slippage with the Petzl ZigZag-Plus/Petzl Chicane/Petzl Triact carabiner on the Petzl Flow 11,6 mm. rope !
We asked him to confirm this in writing.

- 8th of july, 2021. We received an email from Petzls Global After Sales manager, Eric Dominicy, in which Petzl confirmed, that Petzl had "...reproduced the slippage you reported."
Petzl went on to say, that because their "...first concern is the safety of all PETZL product users" Petzl were "working on a specific communication that should be published in the next few days" !

- 9th of july, 2021. We replied to Petzl, that "The problem only seems to exist with the Petzl Flow 11,6 mm. ropes.".
Also we pointed out, that it as a problem, that there are no existing standards on how to measure the diameter of climbing ropes, and asked Petzl, if Petzl would consider telling exactly how they measure a given rope diameter, stated on their ropes.

- 29th of july, 2021, -more than 6 weeks after anonymous "Nikki" promised a resonse from Petzl- we received another email from anonymous "Nikki" still refusing to leave his surname, saying, that he had now received our climbing equipment from the retailer and that he would send it to Petzl in France for further ananlysis...!!!???
Also he asked what to to do with replacement products...??
Anonymous "Nikki"s phone later proved to be: (+46) (0)730-853705.

This was a somewhat confusing and bizarre email from anonymous "Nikki" from Petzl Nordic....
So..., on the...

- 29th of july, we wrote back to anonymous "Nikki", pointing out, that...:
a. Petzl in France had already acknowledged in writing on the 8th of july, that they had already received our equipment in France and used it to the reproduce the problem.
b. Anonymous "Nikki" on the 16th of june, 2021, had already himself recommended in writing NOT to use the Petzl Flow rope ("
inte använda er av FLOW repet i SRT)...
c. Anonymous "Nikki" on the 16th of june, 2021, had himself promised in writing a response from Petzl before 23rd of june...and yet not fulfilled that promise more than 6 weeks later.
d. Anonymous "Nikki" was in conflict with relevant consumer legislation, as he was obviously still trying to prevent costumers from complaining and requesting refunds for the malfunctioning and admittedly dangerous Petzl climbing equipment.

- 29th of july, we therefore also wrote a complaint to Petzl in France, about anonymous "Nikki"s unprofessional beviour on behalf of Petzl and a complaint about Petzl failure to deliver the promised written statement and warning !

- 30th of july, 2021, we received a phonecall from anonymous "Nikki", calling from: (+46) (0)730-853705. claiming to represent Petzl.
To know, who we were talking to, we repeatedly asked him for his name, but he systemtically and completely denied giving his name...!!!
Petzl Nordic states, that their telephone number is: (+46) (0)858-773790 and even (+46) (0)722-52 64 60 shows up when looking for Petzl Nordic, but the number, that anonymous "Nikki" called from, (+46) (0)730-853705 does not.
In the call Nikki repeatedly tried to stop us from issuing a warning.
We objected and we tried instead to hold him accountable for his 6 weeks old promise of a swift reaction from Petzl.
To absolutaly no avail.
Despite the obvious safety issues with this Petzl climbing equipment, Nikki would do...nothing..!
Anonymous "Nikki" still denied taking any responsibility or at least ensure, that at an immediate warning was issued.

- 10th of august, 2021. Another 10 days went by with still absolutely no reaction in any form from Petzl !,
Obviously Petzl still failed to take responsibility and issue a warning against this obviously dangerous Petzl equipment, despite the fact, that...;
- Petzl has already admitted to, acknowledged and even reproduced the problem a month ago...
- Petzl claimed, that their "...first concern is the safety of all PETZL product users..."...
- anonymous "Nikki" from Petzl Nordic on the 17th of june, 2021, claimed, that he expected Petzl to make an official statement within a week (23rd of june at the latest)....
- Eric Dominicy from Petzl on the 8th of july, 2021, claimed, that Petzl were "working on a specific communication that should be published in the next few days" ...

- 30th of july, 2021, we received an email from Eric Dominicy, Petzl Gloabal Sales, saying, that Petzl had now recalled the Petzl ZigZag and issued a warning. which can also be downloaded here.
Unfortunately Petzl completely ignored our findings and warnings, regarding the use of the Petzl ZigZag/Chicane for SRT climbing.

- 1st of september, 2021, we thus answered Petzl, that seemingly Petzl did still not understand the dangerous SRT issues, when using the Petzl ZigZag/Chicane and asked Petzl to correct this as soon as possible and that until then our warning was still relevant and would of course be maintained.

Almost two months has now passed, since Petzl admitted to the problem and promised to issue a warning about this admittedly faulty and dangerous Petzl climbing equipment !.
However Petzl has still not issued the promised warning !

Based upon this and systematic, repeated and documented experience from more than 40 individual users and even from Petzl, we therefore maintain this...:


- WARNING -
against
using the Petzl ZigZag Plus and Petzl Chicane for ascending and descending with SRT (Single Rope Technique) on Petzl Flow 11,7 mm. ropes.


Fruitless attempts at dialogue with Petzl about the safetyproblems, associated with this Petzl climbing gear:


16th of june, 2021:
From: Aftersales NORDIC <aftersales.nordic@petzl.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2021 09:38:20 +0200
Subject: Sliding zigzag

"Jag kontaktar dig för att du haft en kurs nyligen med blivande arborister där flera av eleverna upplevde att ZIGZAG på singelrep med CHIKANE och FLOW rep gled.
Jag skulle gärna önska mer information om vid vilka tillfällen som detta skedde och inte samt hur er setup såg ut..."


16th of june, 2021:
To: Aftersales NORDIC <aftersales.nordic@petzl.com>
Date: 16 Jun 2021, 13:10,
Subject: Re: Sliding zigzag

Hej Nikki.


Tack för ditt email.

Vi har genom en del år hatt ett avtal med ...retailer... om färdiga utrustningspaket för våra professionella trädklättringsutbildningar.
Fram tills 2021 innhöll paketen descender och ascenders som SRT verktyg, men i 2021 ändrade vi till ZigZag/Chikane i paketen och även i våra hyrpaket, och med anledning i Corona blev detta först implementerat fullt på juni-utbildningarna.

Faktiskt har vi inte avvecklat en men däremot 5 arboristutbildningar i yrkesträdklättring med 12-30 deltagare på varje utbildning dom senaste veckorna.

En del av dessa deltagare hade köpt färdiga trädklätterutrustningspaket från ...retailer... innan kursen.
Andra använda våra hyrpaket, som tyvärr också innhöll kombinationen av ZigZag/Chikane och Petzl Flow 11,6 mm. rep från ...retailer....

Nästan alla hade deltagare på våra trädklättringsutbildningar hade allvarliga problem med kombinationen av ZigZag/Chikane på Petzl Flow 11,6 mm. rep INTE låste under SRT klättring.

Vi gjorde vissa observationer:
1. Problemet blev även värre, när det rörde sig om tyngre deltagare.
2. Problemet fanns under SRT klättring med ZigZag/Chikane på Petzl Flow 11,6 mm. rep men inte under DRT klättring med ZigZag på samma rep.
3. Problemet gick bort, om vi använde 12,5 mm. rep.
4. VT knop (som ZigZag iofs ändå endast är en mekanisk och mycket dyrare kopia av) funkade avsevärd bättre och kommer förmodligen att bli det, som vi på den bakgrund får använda och rekommendera i framtiden.

Redan innan utbildningarna tok åtminston en deltagare kontakt med ...retailer... och klagade på, att Petzl-kombinationen, som dom hade skickat till honomm, inte låsade under SRT klättring.
I samband med det skickade han båda film och bilder, som du väl kan få därifrån, om du behöver ytterligare dokumentation.

Problemet blev ytterligare förtydligat, när (ytterligare) en av deltagarna gled ner för, att Petzl Zig/Zag/Chikane inte låsade på hans Petzl Flow 11,6 mm. rep, och han därför inte hann få ut sin fot från fotascendern.
Han hamnade därför upp och ner med foten väsentligt över hans huvud !
Endast för, att jag kunne klättra upp och göra en relativt komplicerat, relativt snabb räddning av honom, ungick vi en större olycka !

Min bakgrund är bla mera än 44 års professionell bergs- och klippklättring, 40 år som klippklättringsinstruktör, 25 år som PRAT Supervisor, PRAT Evaluator, SPRAT level III Supervisor och SPRAT evaluator och mera än 10 år som professionella arboristklättringsinstruktör.

På den bakgrund får vi/jag tyvärr konkludera, att...:
- 1. Kombinationen av Petzl ZigZag/Chikane /Petzl 11,6 mm. Flow rep INTE funkar och INTE låser under SRT klättring !
- 2. Kombinationen av Petzl ZigZag/Chikane /Petzl 11,6 mm. Flow rep därför kan vara direkt farlig.
- 3. Vi av den skrivar anledning nu får skriva en varning till alla deltagare på våra senasta trädklättringutbildningar om INTE att använda kombinationen av Petzl ZigZag/Chikane /Petzl 11,6 mm. Flow rep för, att den inte funkar och är farlig för SRT klättring !
- 4. Vi av den anledning nå får skriva till alla deltagare på våra senasta trädklättringutbildningar, att dom omedelbart bör skicka tilbaks sina Petzl Flow rep och kräve att få ersättningsrep från Petzl/...retailer..., som funkar i Petzl ZigZag/Chikane.
- 5. Vi har redan bett, att ...retailer... / Petzl omdelbart byter ut alla Petzl Flow rep, levererade till våra kursdeltagare och till oss för våra hyrpaket, mot 12,5 splitsöglarep.
- 6. Vi INTE kommer att använda kombinationen av Petzl ZigZag/Chikane /Petzl 11,6 mm. Flow rep framöver på våra utbildningar.
- 7. Vi kommer att lägge ut en varning emot kombinationen av Petzl ZigZag/Chikane /Petzl 11,6 mm. Flow rep i samband med SRT klättring !

Vi förvänter ett professionellt bemötande av detta problem från Petzl.
Konkret förvänter vi
- att Petzl utan några anmärningar åtminston byter alla dom 11,6 mm. Petzl Flow rep, som är levererat till oss och våra deltagare på trädklättringsutbildningarna nu i juni med rep splitsöglarep med en diameter, som funkar i Petzl ZigZag/Chikane !
- att
Petzl omedelbart offentliggör och lägger ut en varning emot kombinationen av Petzl ZigZag/Chikane /Petzl 11,6 mm. Flow rep i samband med SRT klättring !

Hoppas, att det get lite svar...

Om du har frågor, är du självklart mycket välkommen att ringe.

Hälsning

Christian Almer
KLATRE-CENTERET


16th of june, 2021:
From: Aftersales NORDIC <aftersales.nordic@petzl.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2021 16:11:34 +0200
Subject: Re: Sliding zigzag

"...
Jag återkopplar till dig så snart som möjligt med ett formellt besked och ev åtgärder. Vi behöver analysera dessa produkter och kompatibilitet med ett flertal olika rep och kombinationer för att säkerställa vad felet beror på för att undvika att problemet sker i framtiden. Vi kommer undersöka samtlig utrustning i kitet, inte enbart repet.

Under tiden råder jag dig att (precis som du skriver)
inte använda er av FLOW repet i SRT under utbildning då det uppenbart resulterat i en del incidenter. Det du kan informera dina kunder om är att du inkommit med denna informationen till oss och att vi i nuläget jobbar med analys av denna setup samt eventuella åtgärder baserat på resultatet av analysen. Utefter dina erfarenheter kan du såklart rekommendera att undvika denna setup tills Petzl återkommit med svar/åtgärder.

Att på förhand uppmana att reklamera samtliga produkter utan att vara säker på orsak kan resultera i att reklamationerna inte blir godkända alternativt att "fel" produkt reklameras om i inte vet med säkerhet vad detta fel beror på.
Jag råder dig att avvakta med denna typ av uppmaningen tills vi vet mer om felet. Jag har dialog med --- om detta och blir det tal om reklamation kommer vi såklart återkomma till både dig och ...retailer... om detta så snart som möjligt.

Återigen tack för all den information du delgivit oss, den är mycket värdefull. Vi kommer återkomma med en utförlig rapport så snart som möjligt! "


16th of june, 2021:
To: Aftersales NORDIC <aftersales.nordic@petzl.com>
Date: 16 Jun 2021, 17:06,
Subject: Re: Sliding zigzag

Hej igen, Nicki ???


Tack för ditt svar.
Självklart ser vi fram til Petzls reaktion.
Baserat på tidigare erfarenhetar och med sommarlovet på gång, kan det emellertid förmodligen komme att ta en del tid.

Det finns emellertid så många vittnen på det här, och dessutom är problemet så pass allvarligt, att vi inte tänker att avvakte Petzls reaktion.

Båda våra deltagare och vi har köpt klätterutrustning för att använda den, och det finns inte något underlag i konsumentlagarna för, att producenten ska ha tillfälle att reagera, om man har köpt en produkt, som båda är farlig och som inte funkar enligt beskrivning !

Självklart går det att reklamera ett produkt, som inte funkar, och som tom utgör en avsevärd säkerhetsrisk och kräve tilbaka betalningen.
Det går inte att diskutera !


Som skrivit kommer vi därför fortfarande med omedelbar verkan att gå vidare med att lägge ut varning och med att skriva till de av utbildningsdeltagarna, som har köpt klätterutrustningspaket med Petzl ZigZag/Chikane och Petzl Flow rep och ...;
- avråde dom ifrån att klättra vidare med utrustningen och dessutom att
- rekommendera dom att returnera repen med begäran om i stället att få levererat ett motsvarande 12,5 mm. rep eller alternativ att få tilbaks betalningen för hela klätterpaketet.

Om det av nån anledning skulle ge problem, kommer vi att rekommendera dom att gå vidare till först ARN och sen -om så behövs- till Tingsrätten !


Vi utgår emellertid ifrån, att vara sig Petzl eller leverantören tänker ställe till med problem av den anledning !

Hälsning

Christian Almer
KLATRE-CENTERET"


17th of june, 2021:
From: Aftersales NORDIC <aftersales.nordic@petzl.com>
Date: 17 Jun 2021, 12:36,
Subject: Re: Sliding zigzag

Som sagt tidigare kommer jag återkomma med ett officiellt besked efter vår analys.
Detta borde komma under nästa vecka.
/Nikki


8th of july, 2021:
From: Global After Sales manager <edominicy@petzl.com>
Date: 8 July 2021, 18:55,
Subject: Re: Sliding zigzag

Sir,
Following our phone conversation today, I confirm we received your personal equipment (ZIG-ZAG, CHICANE and FLOW rope) and we confirm that in this specific configuration
we reproduced the slippage you reported.
Technical investigations are currently in progress to identify the root cause.
As our first concern is the safety of all PETZL product users, we are working on a specific communication that should be published in the next few days.
According to the results of our investigations, PETZL will assume its responsibilities with regard to the quality of the products placed on the market.

We thank you for your relevant alert and for your confidence in the PETZL brand and PETZL products.
Bests regards,

Eric DOMINICY
Global After Sales manager
<mailto:edominicy@petzl.com>edominicy@petzl.com
0609765573


9th of july, 2021:
To: Global Aftersales Petzl <edominicy@petzl.com>
Date: 9 July 2021, 11:23,
Subject: Re: Sliding zigzag

Hello Eric.


Thanks for your email.

The equipment, that you received, is not ours but from one or more of our 40 participants in our june treeclimbing trainings.

The Flow-ropes for our equipment, that we had for our course participants to use during our trainings, have been returned to ...retailer....
Also, ...retailer.... has asked us to return the ZigZag-Plus/Chicane/Triacts, used for our tranings, and we have arranged for that equipment to be returned at the start of next week as well, as we obviously can not use them anymore anyway,

However the problems with our ZigZag-Plus/Chicane/Triacts/Flow, using SRT (Single Rope Technique) combinations were exactly the same.

Whilst your "technical investigations" to find the "root cause” are of course appreciated, they seem an obvious waste of time.
As soon as you increase the courseness and/or the diameter of the rope, the problems disappear, and the ZigZag-Plus/Chicane/Triacts works as intended.
The problem only seem to exist with the Petzl Flow 11,6 mm. ropes.


A. Diameter of a rope.
On a sideline, it is a problem, that there are no standards for measuring and stating the diameter of a climbing rope.
Some manufacturers and even resellers use no weight on the rope, when they measure the diameter.
Some use 5 kg of load.
Some use 100 kg, and some even use 200 kg of load.
The result being, that you can sometimes have 9 mm. ropes with a larger REAL diameter than ie 10 mm. and even 11 mm ropes...!

Obvously it is a problem, when Petzl ie states, that the Petzl ZigZag holds on 11,5 - 13 mm. ropes, and there are no standards enabling you to define the REAL diameter of a rope.

It would be really helpful, if Petzl clearly stated under which condtions (specifically which load is used), when Petzl measures and states the diameter of the ropes, that Petzl sell.
That way, Petzl could also make a clear statement, regarding which diameters of ropes are prescribed and required for Petzl tools to work as stated.
That ways a lot of associated problems, incidents like these and possibly even fatalities could be avoided.
- A.
- Would Petzl consider stating the conditions under which they measure the diameter of a rope in the future?


Anyway.
It sounds good, that you will react with a communication/statement.
- B,
- Could you please send a copy and/or a link, when it is ready?


Looking forward to hearing from you.
Sincerely

Christian Almer
KLATRE-CENTERET


29th of july, 2021:
From: Aftersales NORDIC <aftersales.nordic@petzl.com>
Date: 29 July 2021, 12:04,
Subject: Re: Sliding zigzag

Hej Christian!

Jag har förstått att vår chef för aftersales i Frankrike haft kontakt med dig ang detta ärende sedan vi hade kontakt senast. Hoppas du har fått en del svar trots att slutgiltiga analysen inte är färdigställd ännu.

Jag vill bara meddela att din utrustning från ...retailer... nådde mig i Måndags och att jag har testat din utrustning.
Jag kommer behöva skicka dem till Frankrike för vidare analyser.

Det
jag undrar nu är hur du vill att vi gör med ersättningsprodukter då jag uppfattat det som att du inte längre vill fortsätta använda Petzls produkter?
Du får gärna återkoppla dina önskemål till mig så ska jag se vad jag kan ordna.

All the best / Nikki


After Sales Service
PETZL Nordic AB
Borgarfjordsgatan 6
SE-164 55 Kista
SWEDEN


29th of july, 2021:
To: Aftersales NORDIC <aftersales.nordic@petzl.com>
Date: 29 July 2021, 18:51,
Subject: Re: Sliding zigzag

Hej anonyma Nikki, som fortfarande inte ens vill lämna sitt efternamn.
Verkligen länge sen...


A.
17. juni skrev du, att du ville:
"...återkomma med ett officiellt besked efter vår analys. Detta borde komma under nästa vecka."
Och nu -efter ytterligare 6 veckor- har du fortfarande inte skrivit...!

Dessutom skrivar du nu, att du i måndags har fått vår utrustning i måndags och kommer att skicka det till Frenkrike för ytterligare analys...!!!???
Det är tydligt, att du också är fullständigt utan kontakt med vara sig verkligheten eller Petzl i Frankrike !! ???
8. juli skrev nämligen Petzl i Frankrike tex. till oss, att:
"I confirm we received your personal equipment (ZIG-ZAG, CHICANE and FLOW rope) and we confirm that in this specific configuration we reproduced the slippage you reported. Technical investigations are currently in progress to identify the root cause."
och vidare, att Petzl av den anledning:
"...are working on a specific communication that should be published in the next few days."
- Hur skulle det kunne hänge ihop med, att anonyma Nikka i dag, 29. juli skrev, att han har fått vår utrustning i måndags, 26. juli och sen "...kommer behöva skicka dem till Frankrike för vidare analyser."...???

Du, anonyma Nikki...:
Som skrivit har Petzl redan fått vår utrustning, testat den och erkänd, att den inte funkar for SRT (Single Rope Technique) climbing !!
Dessutom lovade först du 17. juni och sedan Petzl, Frankrike, 8. juli, att Petzl med anledning i erkännandeet ovan ville offentliggöra en därskild kommunikation inom ett par dagar, vilket dom tyvärr fortfarande inte heller har gjort !

- Du verkar inte vara sig ha koll på eller kunne ta ansvar för nånting, särskild säkerhetsutrustning för klättring.


B.
Med anledning av ditt slarviga, oprofessionella och ansvarslöse beteende, har vi i dag beslutat, att vi med omedelbar verkan kommer att sluta använda och även rekommendera Petzl klätterutrustning i alla former i våra service- och tränings förstag, inkluderande bla:
- Arboristskolan
- Akademin för Natur- & Friluftsliv
- Klatre-Centeret
- Scanrope.

Baserat på våra erfarenhetar med dig och din oerhört oprofessionella och långsamma "reaktioner" och "svar” i detta ärende, kommer vi dessutom aktivt att avråde alla deltagare på våra utbildningar från användning av Petzl klätterutrustning.


C.
Vad gäller din fråga om "ersättningsprodukter", får vi tydligen repetera, vad vi redan har skrivit till dig tidigare (nedan) -läs gärne denna gången-, nämligen, att:
"Båda våra deltagare och vi har köpt klätterutrustning för att använda den, och det finns inte något underlag i konsumentlagarna för, att producenten ska ha tillfälle att reagera, om man har köpt en produkt, som båda är farlig och som inte funkar enligt beskrivning !
Självklart går det att reklamera ett produkt, som inte funkar, och som tom utgör en avsevärd säkerhetsrisk och kräve tilbaka betalningen.

Det går inte att diskutera !"

och:
"Om det av nån anledning skulle ge problem, kommer vi att rekommendera dom att gå vidare till först ARN och sen -om så behövs- till Tingsrätten !"
- Kanske det hjälper på din förståelse för tex. dansk forbrugerlovgivning och svensk Konsumenttjänstlag att läse svaret denna gången...?

Hälsning


Christian Almer
KLATRE-CENTERET


29th of july, 2021:
To: Global After Sales manager <edominicy@petzl.com>
Date: 29 July 2021, 18:51,
Subject: Re: Sliding zigzag

Hello again.


A.
5 weeks after anonymous Nikki from Petzl Aftersales Nordic -still refusing to leave even his surname- on the 17th of june promised us a quick resonse and a published official warning within a week), today, the 29th of july, we received another email from anonymous Nikki, saying, that he had just received our climbing equipment and would send it to you for futher testing and analysis...???

But...
On the 8th of juli you wrote, that:
"I confirm we received your personal equipment (ZIG-ZAG, CHICANE and FLOW rope) and we confirm that in this specific configuration we reproduced the slippage you reported. Technical investigations are currently in progress to identify the root cause."
and furthermore, that Petzl based on that:
"...are working on a specific communication that should be published in the next few days."

- Petzl is obviously not keeping its promises, and obviously one Petzl representative is not even aware of what the other is doing !


B,
Since your written promise, 8th of july, about a "specific communication", "...published in the next few days" a further 3 weeks (21 days) have now gone by and STILL NOTHING has happened.
Neither have you answered or even responded to our email, the day after, 9th of july (below) including our technical obeservations and advice and our 2 very specific 2 questions (A-B) therein.::!!! ???

Unfortunately we have therefore now been forced to draw the conclusion, that Petzl is unwilling or unable to professionally and effectively handle safety issues with their climbing equipment with the swiftness and professionalism, needed for a safe and trustworthy supplier of professional climbing equipment.


- Consequently we have decided, that we can not wait any longer and will therefore now go forward with a campaign, warning against use of this Petzl climbing equipment.


C.
Also, we have decided to stop any promotion, presentation and use of Petzl climbing equipment in any form in our service- and training- companies and -centres, including ao:
Arboristskolan
Akademin för Natur- & Friluftsliv
Klatre-Centeret
Scanrope

- This will take effect, starting 1st of august, 2021.


Sorry but you have only given false promises, and any attempt at a dialog with you on this has been both futile and meaningless !

Sincerely


Christian Almer
KLATRE-CENTERET


31st of august, 2021:
From: Eric DOMINICY <edominicy@petzl.com>
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2021 14:54:44 +0200
Subject: PETZL ZIGZAG COMMUNICATION

Dear M. Almer,

Following our previous conversation and email about your experienced with your PETZL ZIGZAG PLUS, you will find on our website a today released safety information :

https://www.petzl.com/GB/en/Professional/recalls/2021-8-31/Safety-information--Cases-of-slippage-with-ZIGZAG---ZIGZAG-PLUS---ZILLON


We thank you for your relevant report that enabled us to identify the root causes.

Best regards,


Eric DOMINICY
Global After Sales manager
<mailto:edominicy@petzl.com>edominicy@petzl.com
0609765573

Petzl • ZI Crolles, 132 rue du Pré Blanc, Cidex 105 A, 38920 Crolles, France
+33 476 920 900


1st of september, 2021:
To: Global After Sales manager <edominicy@petzl.com>
Date: 1 Sep 2021 2021, 01:45,
Subject: Re: PETZL ZIGZAG COMMUNICATION

Dear mr. Dominicy.


Thanks for your notice.

I notice, that you are still not answering our questions, regarding rope diameter from 9th of july, 2021.

Even though...
- it has now been almost 2 months, since you confirmed, that Petzl had "reproduced the slippage",, and even though
- it is now the 3rd time, that Petzl recalls the ZigZag,
it is good to learn, that you have now published a "Product recall Safety Alert" (which can also be downloaded here) and, that you stop sales of the Petzl ZigZag and ZigZag Plus.

BUT.
Even though you thank me for my "relevant report that enabled us to identify the root causes", it is unfortunately obvious, that you still do not seem to understand and certainly, that you have not identified or at least pointed out any root causes, as you unfortunately ONLY ask owners and users to check, if their ZigZags work, by testing them in DRT (Double Rope Technique) mode ?
You do NOT ask them at all to ensure, that their ZigZags are working with the Petzl Chicane in SRT (Single Rope Technique) as shown in the Petzl ZigZag User Manual, even though this seems to be the only relevant reaction the problems, that both we and others repetaedly experienced and repetedly relayed and documented to you, regarding the failing and dangers of using the Petzl ZigZag/Chicane in SRT...!

As you know, these problems are clearly documented in our warning:
http://www.naturakademi.com/zigzagwarning
that we published and which we have sent you numerous notifications of, repeated information about and links to !

Even the header of the above warning states, that the warning is a:
"WARNING against using the Petzl ZigZag and Petzl Chicane on Petzl Flow, 11,6 mm. rope for SRT (Single Rope Technique)."

Also, we specifically and repeatedly documented to you that the ZigZag problem was particilarly associated with Chicane/SRT-technique (that Petzl describes in their User Manual for the Petzl ZigZag...!!!
This was done in at least 5 emails to Petzl;
- 3 emails to anonymous Nikki, Petzl Nordic (2 emails on 16th, 2021 of june and 1 on 29th of july).
- 2 emails to you (Petzl Global Sales) on 9th of july and 29th of july.

We even received an email from Petzl Nordic (anonymous Nikki) on the 16th of of june, 2021, stating, that we should stop using the Petzl ZigZag on the Petzl Flow rope in SRT ("Inte använda...i SRT")...!

Your omission to warn users against using the Petzl ZigZag/Chicane for SRT is thus inexplicable, and might even seem to to be a conscious omission, compromising the safety of the users !


Yet in your latest Product Recall and Safety Alert for the Petzl ZigZag, you COMPLETELY omit to even mention the use of ZigZag/Chicane for SRT, let alone the dangers of using these Petzl tools for SRT.

By claiming, that if the ZigZag does not slide on a double rope (DRT) system (which it will almost certainly not, because it is only loaded with half of the weight), it will be safe to use (even with the Chicane for SRT - where it will amost certainly NOT hold), Petzl seems to be consciously luring users into using the Petzl ZigZag in SRT with a Petzl Chicane and thus subject the Petzl ZigZag user to a proven (and even ackowledged by Petzl in their email from 8th of july, 2021) unsafe and potentially dangerous practice!!!

By ONLY recommending, that current owners and users test their ZigZag and ZigZag Plus in DRT (Double Rope Technique) and by NOT telling the users to at least also test their ZigZag with Chicane in SRT, you subject the owners and users to a major and unecessary safety and health hazard.

In your recent "Recall and Safety Alert" for the Petzl ZigZag you also falsely claim, that you have "only received reports of inconvenience related to slippage".
That, however is not true !
We have written to you in detail, how we had to perform a complicated rescued of a person, hanging helplessly from his Petzl Pantin foot ascender, head down, with his foot above his head, because he was quite heavy, and his Petzl ZigZag/Chicane did not hold him.
That could easily have been life threatening, if a complicated pick off rescue of the casualty had not been performed.
And that should of course never be called "only" "reports of inconvenience" by any serious manufacturer.

//////////////////////////
Based on the above, we would like you to answer the following:

A.
- Why are you not mentioning the safety -problems and issues, that we have clearly and repetaedly documented, and which you have even admitted to reproducing, with the Petzl ZigZag/Chicane on SRT, in your recent "Recall and Safety Alert" for the Petzl ZigZag?

B.
- Why are you claiming, that you have only received reports of inconvenience, when this is clearly not true?

C.
- Also we will have to ask you to make immediate corrections of your recent "Recall and Safety Alert" for the Petzl ZigZag to reflect the above and to ensure, that...:
- a.
Users are also asked to Perform a function test with the Petzl ZigZag and the rope in single mode (SRT) with the Chicane mounted as described in the Petzl ZigZag User Manual.
- b.
The false claims,that there has only been reports of only "inconvenience" when using the Petzl ZigZag are removed.

We of course expect Petzl to react professionally and to answer and react to this swiftly,
D.
- Please let us know, if and when you expect to answer the above questions and make the above corrections?

E.
- Please also answer our still unaswered questions, regarding rope diameter from 9th of july.

Please do not hesitate to ask, if you have any questions.

Looking forward to hearing from you.
Sincerely


Christian Almer
Klatre-Centeret.


® Akademin för Natur- & Friluftsliv, 1st of september, 2021.